Very interesting read, but once again your math is misleading and actually a half-truth, needs some help as I' shown before. In regard to Anhydrous Ammonia (NH3) 1000 gal nurse tanks. You said each tank holds 1000 gallon, 5000 #'s of nitrogen. BUT that's NOT TRUE, a nurse tank is NEVER filled over 85% to allow for expansion. a 1000 gal n…
Very interesting read, but once again your math is misleading and actually a half-truth, needs some help as I' shown before. In regard to Anhydrous Ammonia (NH3) 1000 gal nurse tanks. You said each tank holds 1000 gallon, 5000 #'s of nitrogen. BUT that's NOT TRUE, a nurse tank is NEVER filled over 85% to allow for expansion. a 1000 gal nurse tank holds 850 gallon of NH3 (5#/gal = 4'250#) which is 82% act N which = 3,885# actual N.,/ tank. You are 1185#/tank too high and wrong. Now take the on out to rest of your figures, wow! This just confirm my thoughts to question about what you claim so often.
I do like seeing your graphs and river amts.
I don't have time to always check your so called facts but your misleading information which definitely misseducates your following. The false info helps create hatred sometimes.
I know there is a problem with lost nitrate and it is a big concern and needs to be worked on. Knee jerk reactions for a problem are seldom the way to proceed. What are other states in the corn belt doing for the problem? I'd like to see some facts about that!!
Heavens yes. I took it u were talking about actual N used and it wasn't the way it was figured by 1000 gal capacity/ nurse tank. Yes I've seen some little fuller than 85% but still its not a total of 344 million #s of actual N which is the nitrate. I'll look at it more after this week of volunteering at the county fair. And there is more bigger tanks but it's still the same in actual nitrogen/ton of NH3.
There are 1,500- and 2,000-gallon NH3 nurse tanks out there, too, right? And the bigger ones are becoming more common. Did you mention that? Plus, there are 5.14 pounds of NH3 in a gallon if you want to be precise.
A nurse tank is "NEVER" filled over 85%? LOL. Should we talk about the tanks out there with faulty gauges? Should we talk about how close to full they might be filled every time they're re-filled, when they're being emptied every couple of hours?
But all of this really doesn't matter, does it? Chris was working backwards using an analogy of NH3 nurse tanks. The nitrate stream sensor data told him the final number of N loss over two months -- 343.8 million pounds. It doesn't matter if that loss can fill (or 85% fill) 1,000-, 1,500-, or 2,000-gallon nurse tanks. It's 343.8 million pounds of N that got away. The analogy paints a picture. And it ain't pretty.
If you acknowledge there's a problem and that it's a big concern what are your solutions? I don't hear hatred in Chris's substack. I hear a strong call to action.
I said sometimes. Sorry but his writings say 'farmers' not 'some farmers'. That's like saying 'writer's' twisting words instead should say 'some' writers.
Out of 153,680 2020 census counted farmers in the state of Iowa 799 of them are organic. The only thing wrong with his statement is calling the other 152,000+ “Farmers” …. They’re fucking miners. Anytime you use more calories than you produce, you’re a miner! Strip mining with no concerns about the environment or anything in it. Fuck you and your disingenuous bullshit.
Wow! I personally don't feel it is a reality calling 152,000 'farmers' (producers) as #^@#%^$ 'miners. Yes I've seen a few, very few, especially in 1980's when so many going broke and no money for inputs. But they only lasted for a couple years. Thx for your intelligent input, everyone has opinion and thoughts.
I don’t offer opinions when it comes to political science or anything connected to the soil. That would be incredibly unprofessional. I am informing you of reality. If you choose, or choose not to learn something, that is on you. If you’re not at least open to the possibility, at least let me know.
I'm always open to learning things. I definitely try to share reality and info. U DO offer opinions on anything connected to the soil. U choose not to learn many things going on with soil. Political science is part of reason we got to where we are today in production agriculture. It's really important to understand history, especially if it something a person needs more knowledge of for certain subjects. It tends to be all related..
If I offer an opinion on soil, I will most definitely qualify. Obviously, you don’t understand my experience. Over five decades of growing in building soil. Paying Keane attention and studying the greatest soil scientist ever. Namely, Albrecht and Walters. Please. You have no idea what I know. I know what I know, and now, I have a fair idea what you don’t know.
Congratulations on building soil for over 50 years. I find that quite impressive. I would be very interested in your sharing your experience with me how it was done and on what scale, what was produced to generate income for like to support a family, pay land costs, etc.? I feel I've worked hard to build, or save my soil, over my lifetime. and adapted ideas to help. I definitely don't know it all but enjoy learning every day. Thank you
Nobody respects professional political scientists. It is stupid tribal blind allegiance, and the illusion of choice that brought us here. Certainly not real unbiased policy driven political scientists.
Take your industry, mouthpiece gibberish, and shove far far far up your ass.
Conventional agrabusiness kills soil. It’s that simple. As well as complex lifeforms and humans. Shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down. Conventional agrabusiness equipment operators are the intellectually laziest demographic in America. And that’s a high fucking bar.
Wow! You are very interesting. Very hard to have sensible exchange with you. Thx though, I love exchanging with people that may be a little misinformed
First, who decides to make a price of a product so high that the consumer of such quits buying? The govt. thru taxes? Or to the retailer? So then that means the controller decides, like soda pop out East. And where does this tax go?
Let me explain the beef system of supply and demand. A few years ago due to drought out west ranchers were forced to start liquidating herd numbers down,of coarse the number of weaned calves to go to finishing kept going down. At same time beef consumption was high. The packers started bidding up as it was profitable to buy the beef. As finished cattle prices went up producers that buy calves to grow to market wt started bidding up against each other to finish as there was a ROI, return on investment. Mama cows producing calves in the country continued to go down, lowest numbers in decades. The cycle has just kept going. End product keeps moving. Imported beef from Brazil stays steady. If retail beef gets too high the fed govt will allow more imports. Last time beef got too high to suit the powers that be imports from Australia were increased to curtail the higher prices. Australia has been experiencing drought problems as well now.
Also I didn't record the info I saw but the large ant of people using assistance are buying a lot of beef with their free money. Thank you tax payers. I volunteer at a monthly HACAP food dispersal to families in a part of my county and it's interesting to see the amt of govt bought beef, chicken, fish given away. I also volunteer at a food pantry and the same observation.
I don't have time right now to address artificial high pricing of crop nutrients.
Sorry I like to discuss sensibly so can't shut up and I am sitting down. What I meant was 'how to make the price of crop nutrient inputs so high a crop producer could not afford them'. If it's taxed beyond belief, where's the money go and WHO decides? Yes subsidies have become the norm for many crops in this country. Why? It is true that many yrs ago the powers that be that govern u and me were worried about food security. There were times we could only plant so much corn on a farm, according to the corn base alloted. If didn't participate u didn't qualify to be able to get a cheaper loan on the grain till sold. Just so many things. I remember when no carrot on stick from govt, but as the payments for this or that came along a producer eventually had to or the ones that took advantage of it would gobble u up.
I'm guessing the countries u refer to don't have the vast amt of good grazing and feed stuffs area for the brood cow and offspring we have in this country. Eating single ingredient beef is not unhealthy. I'm don't believe the majority of our ag practices are of destructive nature. And, I sure would like for it to be explained to me how farmers would be better off, to your question, because I sure don't understand how..
As I pointed out, Asian countries are not fortunate to have the vast areas in their countries to support beef production as in the U.S. Beef production is a part of most states in this country.
I agree we in this country eat more red meat than we may need. Yes I've been observing the green-house gasses issue. I have seen that daily jet flights are producing more green-house gases than beef production, for some they'll lower beef production when less jetting.
Thx. Also make sure you don't always take to heart what u read from some people who have a tendency to have an agenda and possibly word things that their info can be misconstrued.
In my opinion our beef producers would not be better off. I have friends, neighbors and relatives that graze land that should not be cropped or too dry area for crops and use their beef enterprise to compliment and intertwine with their overall farm operation.
Any quality beef advertises? It’s finishing feed. Whether it’s corn, grass or what have you. You’re just making shit up at this point. Stop. It’s embarrassing.
And most of it is shit. If you had one of my Kansas City strip certified organic Angus steaks, you never go back. Stop shopping at the grocery store. Check out #LocalHarvest.org.
Well, I have had certified organic Angus Beef which of course could have had been fed organic corn. It was OK don't recall being any better. My beef and pork does not come from grocery store but from home fed done at local small processing plant.
Simply price it at what it truly cost. All conventional agrabusiness commodity producers are completely based on fossil fuels from the diesel to the chemicals to the fertilizer. All killing the soil and complex lifeforms on earth. Including us. Can you put a price tag on healthy and clean food, water, and soil?
Also me and many others I know are slowing building the organic matter of our soil, according to periodic soil analysis. which increases water and nutrient holding capacity and productivity. We do this with crop residue, livestock manure, and dried human feces We also do this by keeping erosion to a minimum by not disturbing the soil with tillage. Very slow process.
Building soil is not slow. If you know how to do it. Erosion is best controlled with strip cropping. Nine times on average more efficient than seven-figure terraces.
You mean you are slowly building the organic matter of the soil?
I do know that organic farming takes more diesel per acre and more per unit of the much lower production than my no-tll corn/SB production. As growing up as a young child we were organic producers and didn't know it. Back then, before crop protection inputs of today, we rotated to oats, a yr of hay with part of the seeded ground fenced for hogs to be fed in the field, then a year or 2 of corn. The corn and hay fields were usually moldboard plowed in spring. Then tilled at least twice, then cultivated up to 4 times. The carbon was being cooked out of the bare soil and way more tons of soil washed away than today and the areas of top soil being gone got bigger
If u grab a handful of my soil u will see healthy soil. My soils are alive with fish worms and live soil bacteria.
Not if you’re using anhydrous ammonia, glide phosphate, die, Camba, and Notal with simple too late cover cropping systems. Just not. Nine out of 10 conventional, farmers soil, edition, tilth challenged, between compassion, and the molecular Efecto by 40 8 PM to crops is not a rotation. The NPK model is nothing more than a fertilizer sales gimmick. You are literally killing the soil. If you are growing, conventional, GMO, corn and soy beans. You are killing the soil. I don’t care if you live in Iowa and have the richest soil on earth. You’re just taking longer to kill it.
The tiny bit of diesel per acre that I use compared to my conventional counterparts is statistically insignificant. Your claim about yields is blatant ignorance. I consistently out yield all of my neighbors and every single crop but corn. Which, certainly doesn’t need to be part of the fuel equation and definitely not human food for the 10 to 15% less that I grow is all fed to animals.
Also, by circumstance, I make half of my diesel from organic soy. A definite negative in the balance sheet. But hey, is it all about money?
Sorry, I was referring to the organic farmers I observe, whether the English or Amish. What crops out yield your neighbors. What part of the country are u located in?
Very interesting read, but once again your math is misleading and actually a half-truth, needs some help as I' shown before. In regard to Anhydrous Ammonia (NH3) 1000 gal nurse tanks. You said each tank holds 1000 gallon, 5000 #'s of nitrogen. BUT that's NOT TRUE, a nurse tank is NEVER filled over 85% to allow for expansion. a 1000 gal nurse tank holds 850 gallon of NH3 (5#/gal = 4'250#) which is 82% act N which = 3,885# actual N.,/ tank. You are 1185#/tank too high and wrong. Now take the on out to rest of your figures, wow! This just confirm my thoughts to question about what you claim so often.
I do like seeing your graphs and river amts.
I don't have time to always check your so called facts but your misleading information which definitely misseducates your following. The false info helps create hatred sometimes.
I know there is a problem with lost nitrate and it is a big concern and needs to be worked on. Knee jerk reactions for a problem are seldom the way to proceed. What are other states in the corn belt doing for the problem? I'd like to see some facts about that!!
Yes I know the tanks are rarely full. But do you realize if I calculate with 80% full tanks that only *increases* the number of tanks in the example?
Heavens yes. I took it u were talking about actual N used and it wasn't the way it was figured by 1000 gal capacity/ nurse tank. Yes I've seen some little fuller than 85% but still its not a total of 344 million #s of actual N which is the nitrate. I'll look at it more after this week of volunteering at the county fair. And there is more bigger tanks but it's still the same in actual nitrogen/ton of NH3.
There are 1,500- and 2,000-gallon NH3 nurse tanks out there, too, right? And the bigger ones are becoming more common. Did you mention that? Plus, there are 5.14 pounds of NH3 in a gallon if you want to be precise.
A nurse tank is "NEVER" filled over 85%? LOL. Should we talk about the tanks out there with faulty gauges? Should we talk about how close to full they might be filled every time they're re-filled, when they're being emptied every couple of hours?
But all of this really doesn't matter, does it? Chris was working backwards using an analogy of NH3 nurse tanks. The nitrate stream sensor data told him the final number of N loss over two months -- 343.8 million pounds. It doesn't matter if that loss can fill (or 85% fill) 1,000-, 1,500-, or 2,000-gallon nurse tanks. It's 343.8 million pounds of N that got away. The analogy paints a picture. And it ain't pretty.
If you acknowledge there's a problem and that it's a big concern what are your solutions? I don't hear hatred in Chris's substack. I hear a strong call to action.
I said sometimes. Sorry but his writings say 'farmers' not 'some farmers'. That's like saying 'writer's' twisting words instead should say 'some' writers.
In other words, there is no good “conventional, agrabusiness commodities producer“
They are mutually exclusive.
how do u arrive at this statement
I’m not your research assistant. Say hello to Felicia. Ciao.
You are the one completely out of context here. Industry fluffer boi much?
Why out of context?
Out of 153,680 2020 census counted farmers in the state of Iowa 799 of them are organic. The only thing wrong with his statement is calling the other 152,000+ “Farmers” …. They’re fucking miners. Anytime you use more calories than you produce, you’re a miner! Strip mining with no concerns about the environment or anything in it. Fuck you and your disingenuous bullshit.
Wow! I personally don't feel it is a reality calling 152,000 'farmers' (producers) as #^@#%^$ 'miners. Yes I've seen a few, very few, especially in 1980's when so many going broke and no money for inputs. But they only lasted for a couple years. Thx for your intelligent input, everyone has opinion and thoughts.
Only if you use definitions of words……
I don’t offer opinions when it comes to political science or anything connected to the soil. That would be incredibly unprofessional. I am informing you of reality. If you choose, or choose not to learn something, that is on you. If you’re not at least open to the possibility, at least let me know.
I'm always open to learning things. I definitely try to share reality and info. U DO offer opinions on anything connected to the soil. U choose not to learn many things going on with soil. Political science is part of reason we got to where we are today in production agriculture. It's really important to understand history, especially if it something a person needs more knowledge of for certain subjects. It tends to be all related..
If I offer an opinion on soil, I will most definitely qualify. Obviously, you don’t understand my experience. Over five decades of growing in building soil. Paying Keane attention and studying the greatest soil scientist ever. Namely, Albrecht and Walters. Please. You have no idea what I know. I know what I know, and now, I have a fair idea what you don’t know.
Congratulations on building soil for over 50 years. I find that quite impressive. I would be very interested in your sharing your experience with me how it was done and on what scale, what was produced to generate income for like to support a family, pay land costs, etc.? I feel I've worked hard to build, or save my soil, over my lifetime. and adapted ideas to help. I definitely don't know it all but enjoy learning every day. Thank you
Nobody respects professional political scientists. It is stupid tribal blind allegiance, and the illusion of choice that brought us here. Certainly not real unbiased policy driven political scientists.
Take your industry, mouthpiece gibberish, and shove far far far up your ass.
Conventional agrabusiness kills soil. It’s that simple. As well as complex lifeforms and humans. Shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down. Conventional agrabusiness equipment operators are the intellectually laziest demographic in America. And that’s a high fucking bar.
Wow! You are very interesting. Very hard to have sensible exchange with you. Thx though, I love exchanging with people that may be a little misinformed
I speak truth. With no tact or middle class sensibility. Please deal with it.
To be ignorant of anything in today’s society, with every written word in the world libraries at your fingertips is inexcusable.
Misinformed? You are so far out of your depth. You need to sit down and be quiet or go away.
First, who decides to make a price of a product so high that the consumer of such quits buying? The govt. thru taxes? Or to the retailer? So then that means the controller decides, like soda pop out East. And where does this tax go?
Let me explain the beef system of supply and demand. A few years ago due to drought out west ranchers were forced to start liquidating herd numbers down,of coarse the number of weaned calves to go to finishing kept going down. At same time beef consumption was high. The packers started bidding up as it was profitable to buy the beef. As finished cattle prices went up producers that buy calves to grow to market wt started bidding up against each other to finish as there was a ROI, return on investment. Mama cows producing calves in the country continued to go down, lowest numbers in decades. The cycle has just kept going. End product keeps moving. Imported beef from Brazil stays steady. If retail beef gets too high the fed govt will allow more imports. Last time beef got too high to suit the powers that be imports from Australia were increased to curtail the higher prices. Australia has been experiencing drought problems as well now.
Also I didn't record the info I saw but the large ant of people using assistance are buying a lot of beef with their free money. Thank you tax payers. I volunteer at a monthly HACAP food dispersal to families in a part of my county and it's interesting to see the amt of govt bought beef, chicken, fish given away. I also volunteer at a food pantry and the same observation.
I don't have time right now to address artificial high pricing of crop nutrients.
The consumer. Good God man you just talk to hear yourself jabber don’t you?
Artificially hi? The entire fucking agrabusiness system is one gigantic subsidy! . Shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down.
Sorry I like to discuss sensibly so can't shut up and I am sitting down. What I meant was 'how to make the price of crop nutrient inputs so high a crop producer could not afford them'. If it's taxed beyond belief, where's the money go and WHO decides? Yes subsidies have become the norm for many crops in this country. Why? It is true that many yrs ago the powers that be that govern u and me were worried about food security. There were times we could only plant so much corn on a farm, according to the corn base alloted. If didn't participate u didn't qualify to be able to get a cheaper loan on the grain till sold. Just so many things. I remember when no carrot on stick from govt, but as the payments for this or that came along a producer eventually had to or the ones that took advantage of it would gobble u up.
I'm guessing the countries u refer to don't have the vast amt of good grazing and feed stuffs area for the brood cow and offspring we have in this country. Eating single ingredient beef is not unhealthy. I'm don't believe the majority of our ag practices are of destructive nature. And, I sure would like for it to be explained to me how farmers would be better off, to your question, because I sure don't understand how..
As I pointed out, Asian countries are not fortunate to have the vast areas in their countries to support beef production as in the U.S. Beef production is a part of most states in this country.
I agree we in this country eat more red meat than we may need. Yes I've been observing the green-house gasses issue. I have seen that daily jet flights are producing more green-house gases than beef production, for some they'll lower beef production when less jetting.
Thx. Also make sure you don't always take to heart what u read from some people who have a tendency to have an agenda and possibly word things that their info can be misconstrued.
In my opinion our beef producers would not be better off. I have friends, neighbors and relatives that graze land that should not be cropped or too dry area for crops and use their beef enterprise to compliment and intertwine with their overall farm operation.
Raise the price? Look at price of beef now.
Any quality beef advertises? It’s finishing feed. Whether it’s corn, grass or what have you. You’re just making shit up at this point. Stop. It’s embarrassing.
And most of it is shit. If you had one of my Kansas City strip certified organic Angus steaks, you never go back. Stop shopping at the grocery store. Check out #LocalHarvest.org.
Well, I have had certified organic Angus Beef which of course could have had been fed organic corn. It was OK don't recall being any better. My beef and pork does not come from grocery store but from home fed done at local small processing plant.
Simply price it at what it truly cost. All conventional agrabusiness commodity producers are completely based on fossil fuels from the diesel to the chemicals to the fertilizer. All killing the soil and complex lifeforms on earth. Including us. Can you put a price tag on healthy and clean food, water, and soil?
Also me and many others I know are slowing building the organic matter of our soil, according to periodic soil analysis. which increases water and nutrient holding capacity and productivity. We do this with crop residue, livestock manure, and dried human feces We also do this by keeping erosion to a minimum by not disturbing the soil with tillage. Very slow process.
Building soil is not slow. If you know how to do it. Erosion is best controlled with strip cropping. Nine times on average more efficient than seven-figure terraces.
You mean you are slowly building the organic matter of the soil?
I find you not credible.
I do know that organic farming takes more diesel per acre and more per unit of the much lower production than my no-tll corn/SB production. As growing up as a young child we were organic producers and didn't know it. Back then, before crop protection inputs of today, we rotated to oats, a yr of hay with part of the seeded ground fenced for hogs to be fed in the field, then a year or 2 of corn. The corn and hay fields were usually moldboard plowed in spring. Then tilled at least twice, then cultivated up to 4 times. The carbon was being cooked out of the bare soil and way more tons of soil washed away than today and the areas of top soil being gone got bigger
If u grab a handful of my soil u will see healthy soil. My soils are alive with fish worms and live soil bacteria.
Not if you’re using anhydrous ammonia, glide phosphate, die, Camba, and Notal with simple too late cover cropping systems. Just not. Nine out of 10 conventional, farmers soil, edition, tilth challenged, between compassion, and the molecular Efecto by 40 8 PM to crops is not a rotation. The NPK model is nothing more than a fertilizer sales gimmick. You are literally killing the soil. If you are growing, conventional, GMO, corn and soy beans. You are killing the soil. I don’t care if you live in Iowa and have the richest soil on earth. You’re just taking longer to kill it.
The tiny bit of diesel per acre that I use compared to my conventional counterparts is statistically insignificant. Your claim about yields is blatant ignorance. I consistently out yield all of my neighbors and every single crop but corn. Which, certainly doesn’t need to be part of the fuel equation and definitely not human food for the 10 to 15% less that I grow is all fed to animals.
Also, by circumstance, I make half of my diesel from organic soy. A definite negative in the balance sheet. But hey, is it all about money?
I like the idea u make part of your diesel fuel needs.
Sorry, I was referring to the organic farmers I observe, whether the English or Amish. What crops out yield your neighbors. What part of the country are u located in?