I attended an Iowa Soybean Association meeting about 10 years ago and talked to a number of farmers. It amazed me how much anhydrous and hog manure was still being applied in the fall months. I asked a farmer why. He said it was pretty much because of logistics, to get the workload out of the way so it wouldn't have to be done in the spring. They knew they were losing a lot of N, but it was worth it.
When we do in-season nitrate tests of soil to see if we have enough N for the crop, 25 ppm is considered adequate. Presumably water in tile lines in early summer would also run close to this.
Corn is a "leaky" crop when it comes to nitrogen. If a farmer is going to maximize his yield, there is going to be elevated N in the soil water. Common sense, ENFORCED, regulations on rate and timing are needed to even dent the losses. And yes, that means it will cost more to produce corn either through not always hitting the maximum yield or more equipment to apply fertilizer and manure timely.
IMO, the stick, not a carrot, is needed, and if that doesn't work, a bigger stick is needed. We farmers have no holy or earned right to degrade the value of a common good, the environment.
If you’re a conventional commodities producer. You’re not a farmer. You are an equipment operator. Participating in the agribusiness planet rape. True farming agriculture for growing FOOD. Do you even have a garden?
My garden doing ok this year. Made some jalapeno poppers this weekend. Froze some snap beans, made some zucchini casserole. Things got a little weedy and snails were bad. Did use a little commercial fertilizer, but mostly composted goat manure, but no Insecticide. We drink raw milk from my brother's small dairy farm. I honestly don't understand your hostility. Yes, I am involved in conventional agriculture, but I always question the unintended consequences of what we are doing. I posted my original comments to give people an idea of why farmers do what they do and I didn't try to justify anything that was being done. Go back and read my post. Peace out bro.
You are the one that perpetrated the first hostility. Obviously, I don’t belong in the PR department, but there was nothing on the civil or socially unacceptable in my original reply that you were so miffed about.
It’s nothing personal. It’s the topic. We’re killing the soil to produce a toxic product. For the majority of Americans, that’s their daily caloric consumption. Not good strategy.
As I said, it doesn’t have to be that way. Why subsidize multi billion dollar per quarter profit corporations that are literally killing life on this rock? How can you participate in such a paradigm? Or anyone for that matter brand?
We would probably agree on 90% of things. Our diet is killing us: my father died from type 2 diabetes.
I don't work for corporate agriculture. I don't like big Ag. I work for a farmer owned coop. My 30 + year career's mission has been about helping the farmers in my community be competitive through integrated crop Management, IPM, environmental compliance, etc.
My local experience doesn't support your theory that we are killing the planet. Are we killing small producers and people with our diets,? Yes.
I appreciate that you feel very passionately about agriculture.
But assuming I am a shill for corporate agriculture or don't have a garden did piss me off. But so does that lady on Chris's podcast that Is so condescending towards farmers. It turns off us folks like me who are willing to listen to different perspectives and open to changing our views.
Money, greed, and the total disconnect from the rest of life on Earth. This is where we have arrived and now get to live with it. I see the record numbers in the stock market and people buying pontoons, dune buggies, lake homes(folks from Iowa, and everywhere else), gigantic pole sheds to store their toys, the obliteration of apex predators so that the lazy hunters have more to kill, and then comes the farmers who do not know how to change their ways or do not want to because of the uncomfortable situation of learning a whole new ecologically sound food production system that does not ship it's contents all over the continent. Where people become a mutualistic creature on the landscape creating water catchment systems and holding water on the landscape, creating habitat for so many different creatures that we cannot count them all, and finding a sense of peace and calm in creating healthy nutritious food that feeds local people during the growing season. Where people eat what is in season and preserve food in a way that does not create illness or pollution. This has been done before(ask the indigenous folks). People have to change when it is right in front of us looking to punch our lights out. My hope was that with this large brain that humans have evolved into that we would have a better sense of what is good for all life on Earth rather than a self centered parasitic mindset that has led us to " Why do I care, I will be dead, my family will be rich, and I have a lake home in Minnesota". When the parasite kills its host and there is not a suitable food source for it to move to will we realize that sinking, sick feeling of this is the end for us. Hopefully nature will not repeat the hiccup of this over charged brain and insatiable need for money, greed and power
I believe that organizations and people that care about the environment and say they want to protect it-------they should live those values. In my opinion, that would mean not consuming CAFO products. About 99% of meat, dairy and eggs come from CAFOs. If you go to a restaurant and there is no specific information about where the meat, dairy and eggs come from, you can assume they came from a CAFO. I went to an Iowa Citizens for Community Improvement meeting in Solon recently. They advertised food at the meeting. I assume they did this to increase attendance. The food contained CAFOs and I called them on it and they just didn't care. One of their major issues is fighting CAFOs. I am no longer a member, as I expect more integrity than that. I can name several organizations that show a similar lack of integrity.
Industrial ag grows corn and soybeans mainly to make ethanol ( from corn) and to feed animals on CAFOs ( corn and soy). If you do not support this because you know all of the devastating consequences of it all---------------please start avoiding CAFO products and begin to work hard to reduce consumption of all meat, dairy and eggs. Feeding animals to feed people is very inefficient.
Radiance Dairy produces ethical products and farmers markets are excellent sources of ethically raised chickens/eggs. We need to support these people. Thankyou for your comments I completely agree with you.
I know that Radiance Dairy is probably the best you can do to attempt to get "ethical" dairy products. I cannot seem to access a website that provides details about their farm, but I have inquired about their practices in the past. I will say that milk from a cow is meant for her calf and humans have no need for it. I don't know if Francis Thicke allows the calves to stay with their mothers for a long time. As you probably know, most take the calves away within 24 hours. I think that is unethical. In most situations, the male calves are raised for veal, often in those terrible hutches --and the cows end up at the slaughterhouse. All this for a product that we do not need. I don't think any of that is ethical. But his cows do have a better quality of life than 99.99% of the other cows in the dairy industry.
As far as eggs go---even if you purchase them at a farmer's mkt, almost all of the chicks come from huge hatcheries : https://vimeo.com/62826795 There is nothing ethical about this. Most of the hens, no matter the size of the "farm" end up being slaughtered at about 1 1/2 years old. They have all been selectively bred to produce 300 or more eggs a year. In the wild, before domestication, they would have produced 12 to 20 eggs a year. Producing over 300 eggs a year it horribly stressful for the hens.
The humane myth is used to market all of these products. You have to look deeper to understand the whole process.
Obviously milk is 97% water but the solids of two breasted ruminants are all good for you in their constituency. Obviously the same one combined. They have a statistically significant amount of available calcium from phosphorous, ribonucleic, peptides, and all sorts of goodies. In easily digestible Configurations. Also, the milk, sugars and fats are very much like our own mothers milk. I have a muscle in the exact same proteins. I’m no expert, but I had a graduate student at a free range goat dairy for six months. She is. She took milk samples back to a mass spectrometer. There is even a difference between the organic alfalfa, winter, milk and free range. Milk of him the other 10 months of the year. And our alfalfa was great day. Nothing beats an animal product, where the animal is allowed to free choice feed …, sorry, I completely different conversation
It’s not the practice. It’s the model. You can’t have healthy soil without animals. No healthy soil, no healthy plants. No healthy plants, no healthy animals see how this all works?
I talked with a county supervisor recently who shared a conversation he had with a farmer angry about the encroachment of wind turbines and their ill effects followed by pride in his beautiful field of corn made possible by admitted over application of nitrogen. !!!
That C.S. Lewis quote is so appropriate! I love that you speak your mind and back it up with facts. It really angers me that we are being misled like this and many in the media are going along with it. Thanks.
I'm currently reading (finally) my fall issue from the Price-Pottenger Foundation which includes an article about how Indigenous people consider themselves stewards and an integral part of nature instead of commodifying it. The fashion is to call it "regenerative agriculture" and it's a start because it works to build healthy soil which retains more moisture and nutrients which results in a better "product".
JudeoChristian theology is not the only way to do things and certainly not the FIRST way humans did things. Not to mention how vulture capitalism and colonialism of all stripes has created nearly every toxic condition we now find ourselves in.
True. Although, again, it’s not cannibalism it’s imperialism. Rape and pillage. A true capitalist creates a closed loop no waste system so that he never runs out of capital…..
“Why does the citizenry tolerate it” is a great question. I’ve no good answer but suspect apathy and lack of curiosity about the much better way as you’ve laid out play a part. I am increasingly frustrated with the practice of lawmakers creating laws that benefit themselves, and put pressure on land grant universities to quash scientific research that might change their methodologies, as you well know. I think recusing themselves on a legislative vote about which they have a vested interest is a lost practice/value. Statesmanship is going or gone. It all looks like corruption. Citizens should hold those in office accountable to a higher moral - the good of ALL, not what benefits them in their short time on earth. To me, that looks like recusing themselves from votes about which they stand to gain. There are some in our statehouse that hold to that morality, but many who do not. Citizens can demand that their elected officials adhere good statesmanship, but obviously there must be critical mass to affect change.
Your piece is brilliant, full of so many calls to action, and brutally honest, as it should be. Thank you, thank you for fighting for a better Iowa! I love your writing.
As long as citizens believe farmers care about water quality, feed the world, fuel the world, and generally treated as good job Jonny's, politicians will be elected by the fooled majority. It's that simple.
Stop using the word “Farmer“ so loosely. People that use the conventional agribusiness model are nothing more than soil killing, equipment operators. Those of us who are truly farmers at the very least, are certified organic and produce food. Producing toxic from input to product commodities
saddest thing is our colonialist ancestors largely slaughtered the inhabitants who understood how to tend the earth in ways that provided for them so well they had more than enough. glad that enough survived to pass on much of that knowledge.
The mostly pacifist societies that understood they were part of nature never had any luck over the colonialists, who asserted they should have “domain over” thinking the bastards are undefeated…..😉
I am so glad I read this. And thank you so much for writing this. I spent 34 years reading, editing, and writing scientific and engineering papers and yours is one of the best I have ever read. For me, this is the first time I have seen a definitive call-for-action against our agricultural dependence on fertilizers (I have not been looking for one). You make the case very starkly about our ongoing Global chemical and biological pollution catastrophe. This issue should be addressed Nationally, not just by Iowa.
But when it comes to the individuals who are pulling the triggers using their chemicals, they are just like the rest of us who say: “It’s not my problem. I am only doing what I am allowed to do and what I can do as a free and independent capitalist and businessperson. It’s just good business.” They refuse to see a bigger picture in almost a psychotic way just like the legislators in the Iowa and US Congresses.
is it really "good business" when the soil dies and simply can't produce the products any more? a truly good businessperson would nurture the soil so it produces more and better product with less effort, thus producing more profits. consumers are largely willing to pay more for higher quality. I, for instance, am more than willing to pay a premium for the high cream line A2A2 unprocessed certified raw milk from my Amish farmer who has been improving the soil his cows graze on all year as well keeping his milking equipment clean per certification laws in PA. I simply can't tolerate even "organic" bulk tank pasteurized milk any more, it's hard to digest and don't get me started on the "cheap" low quality non organic crap sold in the bigger stores.
I could not agree more. I have changed soil, chemistry, tilth, organic matter, Contant and topsoil depth in five years. To a statistically significant relevance. Imagine that model over 100 years, 500 years?
In 15 to 18 years, conventional corn, growing in the flat desert land of Arizona. Zona produces a rectangle that will not even grow weeds. They call it desert corn concrete. The same thing is happening in Iowa, it’s just going to take a couple century longer. Which, we don’t have.
Besides, if you’re not concerned about quality of product, you should probably be a stripper or something …🤪
You are exactly right to worry about the Rock River in northwestern Iowa! It's part of the Big Sioux Watershed that extends through three states: IA,MN, and SD. So the data collection at monitoring stations and the modeling based on that information gets very complicated. But it's very clear that the big 2024 event delivered a huge slug of water and contaminants. SD Public Broadcasting had an interview with the State Geologist of SD who suggested that the event may have been a 500 year or even 1000 year flood event. We are currently seeing how ag practices designed for one climate regime are totally failing in the precipitation patterns in the new reality. Thanks for running the numbers where the best data are available, but adding the caveat for northwest Iowa.
Thanks again, Chris. You back up your fervor with facts!
I suspect that until enough of us consumers start choosing to hold their government officials accountable and also start meeting their nutritional needs by eating locally and sustainably, "the system" will have no incentive to change.
Chris once again excellent and hair-raising substack. Why oh why don't the Gulf states and all those affected downstream sue Iowa or the chemical companies or corporate farming operations?
There are trade-offs in any social policy changes. ChatGPT4o says average American family spends 10-15% of annual income on food. Were the optimal Chris Jones ag-world to come into being tomorrow to what level would this rise? Your estimate?
Good question and I don’t have an objective answer but bear in mind a couple of things
Leaving the pollution for the public to deal with is a subsidy to the industry
And meat esp beef is not that cheap anymore largely because food giants that control the marketplace. They also fight against regulation of the pollution
As a producer of real, nutrient, dense, pesticide, free, certified organic food, I don’t give a fuck if the poor people starve. Are used to want to feed the world. Now I just want to die. Producing real food with a real soil building practices is a high art. it should be compensated far more than it is.
Switching paradigms of huge subsidy programs like snap and WIC to farm to family model based on a farm to school highly successful model that should be in place for breakfast and lunch at every public school in America would put trillions of dollars into small landholder pockets and high-quality food into over 100 million Americans. How expensive is it to cut the corporate profits from a $2 trillion expense?
K State and ISU research indicates cover crops and no till practices may actually increase total phosphorus loss from farm fields, indicating nutrient management is needed. Duh! Iowa Learning Farms June 19, 2024 Webinar indicated cereal rye cover crops takes up a lot of excess nitrogen but they found it doesn't give it back so readily when needed by the crop. It was suggested that additional nitrogen be applied during the season to compensate for the cover crop not cooperating with the Iowa Nutrient Reduction Strategy. Round and round this little engine goes, fueled by my tax dollars. References below.
The entire NPK evolution is bullshit. Soil chemistry is not about those three numbers. To actually improve soil, you must have a soil audit.
None of the numbers other than Tracy Merrill ppm mean a damn thing individually. What is important are the ratios. Particular to calcium and magnesium. Obviously, nitrogen, demanding crops need extra. Compost and bird shit, bat shit, and other animal shit and planting after lagumes is the answer.
Phosphorous barely move through the soil. Cover crops are essential to any living soil management practice and one or two species in mid August application. Sure, as fuck isn’t a legitimate cover crop.
Very interesting read, but once again your math is misleading and actually a half-truth, needs some help as I' shown before. In regard to Anhydrous Ammonia (NH3) 1000 gal nurse tanks. You said each tank holds 1000 gallon, 5000 #'s of nitrogen. BUT that's NOT TRUE, a nurse tank is NEVER filled over 85% to allow for expansion. a 1000 gal nurse tank holds 850 gallon of NH3 (5#/gal = 4'250#) which is 82% act N which = 3,885# actual N.,/ tank. You are 1185#/tank too high and wrong. Now take the on out to rest of your figures, wow! This just confirm my thoughts to question about what you claim so often.
I do like seeing your graphs and river amts.
I don't have time to always check your so called facts but your misleading information which definitely misseducates your following. The false info helps create hatred sometimes.
I know there is a problem with lost nitrate and it is a big concern and needs to be worked on. Knee jerk reactions for a problem are seldom the way to proceed. What are other states in the corn belt doing for the problem? I'd like to see some facts about that!!
Heavens yes. I took it u were talking about actual N used and it wasn't the way it was figured by 1000 gal capacity/ nurse tank. Yes I've seen some little fuller than 85% but still its not a total of 344 million #s of actual N which is the nitrate. I'll look at it more after this week of volunteering at the county fair. And there is more bigger tanks but it's still the same in actual nitrogen/ton of NH3.
There are 1,500- and 2,000-gallon NH3 nurse tanks out there, too, right? And the bigger ones are becoming more common. Did you mention that? Plus, there are 5.14 pounds of NH3 in a gallon if you want to be precise.
A nurse tank is "NEVER" filled over 85%? LOL. Should we talk about the tanks out there with faulty gauges? Should we talk about how close to full they might be filled every time they're re-filled, when they're being emptied every couple of hours?
But all of this really doesn't matter, does it? Chris was working backwards using an analogy of NH3 nurse tanks. The nitrate stream sensor data told him the final number of N loss over two months -- 343.8 million pounds. It doesn't matter if that loss can fill (or 85% fill) 1,000-, 1,500-, or 2,000-gallon nurse tanks. It's 343.8 million pounds of N that got away. The analogy paints a picture. And it ain't pretty.
If you acknowledge there's a problem and that it's a big concern what are your solutions? I don't hear hatred in Chris's substack. I hear a strong call to action.
I said sometimes. Sorry but his writings say 'farmers' not 'some farmers'. That's like saying 'writer's' twisting words instead should say 'some' writers.
Out of 153,680 2020 census counted farmers in the state of Iowa 799 of them are organic. The only thing wrong with his statement is calling the other 152,000+ “Farmers” …. They’re fucking miners. Anytime you use more calories than you produce, you’re a miner! Strip mining with no concerns about the environment or anything in it. Fuck you and your disingenuous bullshit.
Wow! I personally don't feel it is a reality calling 152,000 'farmers' (producers) as #^@#%^$ 'miners. Yes I've seen a few, very few, especially in 1980's when so many going broke and no money for inputs. But they only lasted for a couple years. Thx for your intelligent input, everyone has opinion and thoughts.
I don’t offer opinions when it comes to political science or anything connected to the soil. That would be incredibly unprofessional. I am informing you of reality. If you choose, or choose not to learn something, that is on you. If you’re not at least open to the possibility, at least let me know.
I'm always open to learning things. I definitely try to share reality and info. U DO offer opinions on anything connected to the soil. U choose not to learn many things going on with soil. Political science is part of reason we got to where we are today in production agriculture. It's really important to understand history, especially if it something a person needs more knowledge of for certain subjects. It tends to be all related..
We know that not all the NH3 in a tank is useable and any normal person knows that only some of what goes on the ground makes its way to the streams and rivers. But if your sensors in the rivers are telling you daily, hourly of even continuous concentrations then no one needs to know how many tanks there are or how much was purchased in the state every year. It’s a control volume problem, easily solved.
As to hatred: I sense feelings about the problem and dealing with it. I sense sympathies for the farmers and all affected. I do not sense hatred though.
Science does not pick sides. But it can initiate some heated discussions.
And as everyone knows, particularly the people reading this post, the most effective way of reducing either meat consumption or fertilizer use is to raise the price.
First, who decides to make a price of a product so high that the consumer of such quits buying? The govt. thru taxes? Or to the retailer? So then that means the controller decides, like soda pop out East. And where does this tax go?
Let me explain the beef system of supply and demand. A few years ago due to drought out west ranchers were forced to start liquidating herd numbers down,of coarse the number of weaned calves to go to finishing kept going down. At same time beef consumption was high. The packers started bidding up as it was profitable to buy the beef. As finished cattle prices went up producers that buy calves to grow to market wt started bidding up against each other to finish as there was a ROI, return on investment. Mama cows producing calves in the country continued to go down, lowest numbers in decades. The cycle has just kept going. End product keeps moving. Imported beef from Brazil stays steady. If retail beef gets too high the fed govt will allow more imports. Last time beef got too high to suit the powers that be imports from Australia were increased to curtail the higher prices. Australia has been experiencing drought problems as well now.
Also I didn't record the info I saw but the large ant of people using assistance are buying a lot of beef with their free money. Thank you tax payers. I volunteer at a monthly HACAP food dispersal to families in a part of my county and it's interesting to see the amt of govt bought beef, chicken, fish given away. I also volunteer at a food pantry and the same observation.
I don't have time right now to address artificial high pricing of crop nutrients.
Sorry I like to discuss sensibly so can't shut up and I am sitting down. What I meant was 'how to make the price of crop nutrient inputs so high a crop producer could not afford them'. If it's taxed beyond belief, where's the money go and WHO decides? Yes subsidies have become the norm for many crops in this country. Why? It is true that many yrs ago the powers that be that govern u and me were worried about food security. There were times we could only plant so much corn on a farm, according to the corn base alloted. If didn't participate u didn't qualify to be able to get a cheaper loan on the grain till sold. Just so many things. I remember when no carrot on stick from govt, but as the payments for this or that came along a producer eventually had to or the ones that took advantage of it would gobble u up.
No one that I know makes a price go high to reduce consumption. I just voiced a known cause and effect relationship. If the society really wants less smoking without all the rhetoric to convince people to do the right thing, all they need to do is raise prices. Probably a bad analogy because of the addiction issue. But no one needs to eat beef. It is desirable, but not a must have. Many other countries have so little beef that their prices are extremely high and the societies look upon it as a real treat, not a staple. If our society were to understand the destructive nature of our current agricultural practices, would they eat less, pay what they would have paid for more, and everyone be healthier and our farmers be better off?
I'm guessing the countries u refer to don't have the vast amt of good grazing and feed stuffs area for the brood cow and offspring we have in this country. Eating single ingredient beef is not unhealthy. I'm don't believe the majority of our ag practices are of destructive nature. And, I sure would like for it to be explained to me how farmers would be better off, to your question, because I sure don't understand how..
My factual basis is very limited but apparently most Asian countries do not see beef, or raise it, like we do in America. Their prices are much higher and their people eat much less per capita per year. Some of the studies I have seen but can not refer to now indicated that green-house gasses from beef production were very high and the world would benefit from reducing all farm animal production. And people do not require the amount of proteins that they are consuming and would be healthier if they reduced their appetite for red meats specifically.
As I pointed out, Asian countries are not fortunate to have the vast areas in their countries to support beef production as in the U.S. Beef production is a part of most states in this country.
I agree we in this country eat more red meat than we may need. Yes I've been observing the green-house gasses issue. I have seen that daily jet flights are producing more green-house gases than beef production, for some they'll lower beef production when less jetting.
And there is the problem succinctly put. As long as people think that the price of the moment is high but they still buy beef, the price is not high enough. When people stop buying because of price and just price, you hit the right price. That is the law of cost/price and demand.
If you want people to stop using a specific product, make the price high enough to induce them to find alternatives. Not eating beef is an alternative.
Fertilizer goes the same way. Make it so expensive that no one can afford it and alternatives will be found or people will stop eating as much….
Simply price it at what it truly cost. All conventional agrabusiness commodity producers are completely based on fossil fuels from the diesel to the chemicals to the fertilizer. All killing the soil and complex lifeforms on earth. Including us. Can you put a price tag on healthy and clean food, water, and soil?
Also me and many others I know are slowing building the organic matter of our soil, according to periodic soil analysis. which increases water and nutrient holding capacity and productivity. We do this with crop residue, livestock manure, and dried human feces We also do this by keeping erosion to a minimum by not disturbing the soil with tillage. Very slow process.
Building soil is not slow. If you know how to do it. Erosion is best controlled with strip cropping. Nine times on average more efficient than seven-figure terraces.
You mean you are slowly building the organic matter of the soil?
I do know that organic farming takes more diesel per acre and more per unit of the much lower production than my no-tll corn/SB production. As growing up as a young child we were organic producers and didn't know it. Back then, before crop protection inputs of today, we rotated to oats, a yr of hay with part of the seeded ground fenced for hogs to be fed in the field, then a year or 2 of corn. The corn and hay fields were usually moldboard plowed in spring. Then tilled at least twice, then cultivated up to 4 times. The carbon was being cooked out of the bare soil and way more tons of soil washed away than today and the areas of top soil being gone got bigger
If u grab a handful of my soil u will see healthy soil. My soils are alive with fish worms and live soil bacteria.
Not if you’re using anhydrous ammonia, glide phosphate, die, Camba, and Notal with simple too late cover cropping systems. Just not. Nine out of 10 conventional, farmers soil, edition, tilth challenged, between compassion, and the molecular Efecto by 40 8 PM to crops is not a rotation. The NPK model is nothing more than a fertilizer sales gimmick. You are literally killing the soil. If you are growing, conventional, GMO, corn and soy beans. You are killing the soil. I don’t care if you live in Iowa and have the richest soil on earth. You’re just taking longer to kill it.
The tiny bit of diesel per acre that I use compared to my conventional counterparts is statistically insignificant. Your claim about yields is blatant ignorance. I consistently out yield all of my neighbors and every single crop but corn. Which, certainly doesn’t need to be part of the fuel equation and definitely not human food for the 10 to 15% less that I grow is all fed to animals.
Also, by circumstance, I make half of my diesel from organic soy. A definite negative in the balance sheet. But hey, is it all about money?
Any quality beef advertises? It’s finishing feed. Whether it’s corn, grass or what have you. You’re just making shit up at this point. Stop. It’s embarrassing.
And most of it is shit. If you had one of my Kansas City strip certified organic Angus steaks, you never go back. Stop shopping at the grocery store. Check out #LocalHarvest.org.
Well, I have had certified organic Angus Beef which of course could have had been fed organic corn. It was OK don't recall being any better. My beef and pork does not come from grocery store but from home fed done at local small processing plant.
Take your industry, mouthpiece gibberish, and shove far far far up your ass.
Conventional agrabusiness kills soil. It’s that simple. As well as complex lifeforms and humans. Shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down. Conventional agrabusiness equipment operators are the intellectually laziest demographic in America. And that’s a high fucking bar.
Wow! You are very interesting. Very hard to have sensible exchange with you. Thx though, I love exchanging with people that may be a little misinformed
I attended an Iowa Soybean Association meeting about 10 years ago and talked to a number of farmers. It amazed me how much anhydrous and hog manure was still being applied in the fall months. I asked a farmer why. He said it was pretty much because of logistics, to get the workload out of the way so it wouldn't have to be done in the spring. They knew they were losing a lot of N, but it was worth it.
When we do in-season nitrate tests of soil to see if we have enough N for the crop, 25 ppm is considered adequate. Presumably water in tile lines in early summer would also run close to this.
Corn is a "leaky" crop when it comes to nitrogen. If a farmer is going to maximize his yield, there is going to be elevated N in the soil water. Common sense, ENFORCED, regulations on rate and timing are needed to even dent the losses. And yes, that means it will cost more to produce corn either through not always hitting the maximum yield or more equipment to apply fertilizer and manure timely.
IMO, the stick, not a carrot, is needed, and if that doesn't work, a bigger stick is needed. We farmers have no holy or earned right to degrade the value of a common good, the environment.
EXACTLY
The last sentence is Evergreen!!!
If you’re a conventional commodities producer. You’re not a farmer. You are an equipment operator. Participating in the agribusiness planet rape. True farming agriculture for growing FOOD. Do you even have a garden?
Not the kind of civil discourse I was looking for when I made my comments.
So, no garden……
Just exactly what is “uncivil” about my comment?
That’s a completely civil comment and absolutely true. Snowflake much?
Don’t you hate it when truth interrupt your narrative?
Fuck you. You want civil discourse about killing soil and life on the planet?
You can eat the organic peanuts out of my shit
My garden doing ok this year. Made some jalapeno poppers this weekend. Froze some snap beans, made some zucchini casserole. Things got a little weedy and snails were bad. Did use a little commercial fertilizer, but mostly composted goat manure, but no Insecticide. We drink raw milk from my brother's small dairy farm. I honestly don't understand your hostility. Yes, I am involved in conventional agriculture, but I always question the unintended consequences of what we are doing. I posted my original comments to give people an idea of why farmers do what they do and I didn't try to justify anything that was being done. Go back and read my post. Peace out bro.
You are the one that perpetrated the first hostility. Obviously, I don’t belong in the PR department, but there was nothing on the civil or socially unacceptable in my original reply that you were so miffed about.
It’s nothing personal. It’s the topic. We’re killing the soil to produce a toxic product. For the majority of Americans, that’s their daily caloric consumption. Not good strategy.
As I said, it doesn’t have to be that way. Why subsidize multi billion dollar per quarter profit corporations that are literally killing life on this rock? How can you participate in such a paradigm? Or anyone for that matter brand?
We would probably agree on 90% of things. Our diet is killing us: my father died from type 2 diabetes.
I don't work for corporate agriculture. I don't like big Ag. I work for a farmer owned coop. My 30 + year career's mission has been about helping the farmers in my community be competitive through integrated crop Management, IPM, environmental compliance, etc.
My local experience doesn't support your theory that we are killing the planet. Are we killing small producers and people with our diets,? Yes.
I appreciate that you feel very passionately about agriculture.
But assuming I am a shill for corporate agriculture or don't have a garden did piss me off. But so does that lady on Chris's podcast that Is so condescending towards farmers. It turns off us folks like me who are willing to listen to different perspectives and open to changing our views.
Money, greed, and the total disconnect from the rest of life on Earth. This is where we have arrived and now get to live with it. I see the record numbers in the stock market and people buying pontoons, dune buggies, lake homes(folks from Iowa, and everywhere else), gigantic pole sheds to store their toys, the obliteration of apex predators so that the lazy hunters have more to kill, and then comes the farmers who do not know how to change their ways or do not want to because of the uncomfortable situation of learning a whole new ecologically sound food production system that does not ship it's contents all over the continent. Where people become a mutualistic creature on the landscape creating water catchment systems and holding water on the landscape, creating habitat for so many different creatures that we cannot count them all, and finding a sense of peace and calm in creating healthy nutritious food that feeds local people during the growing season. Where people eat what is in season and preserve food in a way that does not create illness or pollution. This has been done before(ask the indigenous folks). People have to change when it is right in front of us looking to punch our lights out. My hope was that with this large brain that humans have evolved into that we would have a better sense of what is good for all life on Earth rather than a self centered parasitic mindset that has led us to " Why do I care, I will be dead, my family will be rich, and I have a lake home in Minnesota". When the parasite kills its host and there is not a suitable food source for it to move to will we realize that sinking, sick feeling of this is the end for us. Hopefully nature will not repeat the hiccup of this over charged brain and insatiable need for money, greed and power
Conventional agribusiness toxic from input to product producing fluffer boys are the intellectually laziest demographic in America.
I believe that organizations and people that care about the environment and say they want to protect it-------they should live those values. In my opinion, that would mean not consuming CAFO products. About 99% of meat, dairy and eggs come from CAFOs. If you go to a restaurant and there is no specific information about where the meat, dairy and eggs come from, you can assume they came from a CAFO. I went to an Iowa Citizens for Community Improvement meeting in Solon recently. They advertised food at the meeting. I assume they did this to increase attendance. The food contained CAFOs and I called them on it and they just didn't care. One of their major issues is fighting CAFOs. I am no longer a member, as I expect more integrity than that. I can name several organizations that show a similar lack of integrity.
Industrial ag grows corn and soybeans mainly to make ethanol ( from corn) and to feed animals on CAFOs ( corn and soy). If you do not support this because you know all of the devastating consequences of it all---------------please start avoiding CAFO products and begin to work hard to reduce consumption of all meat, dairy and eggs. Feeding animals to feed people is very inefficient.
https://awellfedworld.org/
Radiance Dairy produces ethical products and farmers markets are excellent sources of ethically raised chickens/eggs. We need to support these people. Thankyou for your comments I completely agree with you.
I know that Radiance Dairy is probably the best you can do to attempt to get "ethical" dairy products. I cannot seem to access a website that provides details about their farm, but I have inquired about their practices in the past. I will say that milk from a cow is meant for her calf and humans have no need for it. I don't know if Francis Thicke allows the calves to stay with their mothers for a long time. As you probably know, most take the calves away within 24 hours. I think that is unethical. In most situations, the male calves are raised for veal, often in those terrible hutches --and the cows end up at the slaughterhouse. All this for a product that we do not need. I don't think any of that is ethical. But his cows do have a better quality of life than 99.99% of the other cows in the dairy industry.
As far as eggs go---even if you purchase them at a farmer's mkt, almost all of the chicks come from huge hatcheries : https://vimeo.com/62826795 There is nothing ethical about this. Most of the hens, no matter the size of the "farm" end up being slaughtered at about 1 1/2 years old. They have all been selectively bred to produce 300 or more eggs a year. In the wild, before domestication, they would have produced 12 to 20 eggs a year. Producing over 300 eggs a year it horribly stressful for the hens.
The humane myth is used to market all of these products. You have to look deeper to understand the whole process.
So, if you consume cow dairy products, what is the best policy practice concerning mail calves?
Every glass of milk comes with a veal cutlet. I hate milk, but I’m down with the VEAL!
Chickens knew what chickens do for you no doubt we have made some errors in our selective breeding but for the most part, we are really good at it.
There is no ethical cow dairy. Even if it’s certified organic. Switch to goat or sheep, or sit down and be quiet.
How are goat and sheep products better
Obviously milk is 97% water but the solids of two breasted ruminants are all good for you in their constituency. Obviously the same one combined. They have a statistically significant amount of available calcium from phosphorous, ribonucleic, peptides, and all sorts of goodies. In easily digestible Configurations. Also, the milk, sugars and fats are very much like our own mothers milk. I have a muscle in the exact same proteins. I’m no expert, but I had a graduate student at a free range goat dairy for six months. She is. She took milk samples back to a mass spectrometer. There is even a difference between the organic alfalfa, winter, milk and free range. Milk of him the other 10 months of the year. And our alfalfa was great day. Nothing beats an animal product, where the animal is allowed to free choice feed …, sorry, I completely different conversation
Lynn, Spot on!
It’s not the practice. It’s the model. You can’t have healthy soil without animals. No healthy soil, no healthy plants. No healthy plants, no healthy animals see how this all works?
I talked with a county supervisor recently who shared a conversation he had with a farmer angry about the encroachment of wind turbines and their ill effects followed by pride in his beautiful field of corn made possible by admitted over application of nitrogen. !!!
Conventional agrabusiness, equipment operators, don’t you dare call them farmers, are the intellectually Lady Red demographic in America.
That C.S. Lewis quote is so appropriate! I love that you speak your mind and back it up with facts. It really angers me that we are being misled like this and many in the media are going along with it. Thanks.
I'm currently reading (finally) my fall issue from the Price-Pottenger Foundation which includes an article about how Indigenous people consider themselves stewards and an integral part of nature instead of commodifying it. The fashion is to call it "regenerative agriculture" and it's a start because it works to build healthy soil which retains more moisture and nutrients which results in a better "product".
The author of Genesis really fucked up when they gave us “domain over”
JudeoChristian theology is not the only way to do things and certainly not the FIRST way humans did things. Not to mention how vulture capitalism and colonialism of all stripes has created nearly every toxic condition we now find ourselves in.
Capitalism*very sorry M driving a tractor with a load of pain behind me.
True. Although, again, it’s not cannibalism it’s imperialism. Rape and pillage. A true capitalist creates a closed loop no waste system so that he never runs out of capital…..
“Why does the citizenry tolerate it” is a great question. I’ve no good answer but suspect apathy and lack of curiosity about the much better way as you’ve laid out play a part. I am increasingly frustrated with the practice of lawmakers creating laws that benefit themselves, and put pressure on land grant universities to quash scientific research that might change their methodologies, as you well know. I think recusing themselves on a legislative vote about which they have a vested interest is a lost practice/value. Statesmanship is going or gone. It all looks like corruption. Citizens should hold those in office accountable to a higher moral - the good of ALL, not what benefits them in their short time on earth. To me, that looks like recusing themselves from votes about which they stand to gain. There are some in our statehouse that hold to that morality, but many who do not. Citizens can demand that their elected officials adhere good statesmanship, but obviously there must be critical mass to affect change.
Your piece is brilliant, full of so many calls to action, and brutally honest, as it should be. Thank you, thank you for fighting for a better Iowa! I love your writing.
thank you for the kind words Joan!
As long as citizens believe farmers care about water quality, feed the world, fuel the world, and generally treated as good job Jonny's, politicians will be elected by the fooled majority. It's that simple.
Stop using the word “Farmer“ so loosely. People that use the conventional agribusiness model are nothing more than soil killing, equipment operators. Those of us who are truly farmers at the very least, are certified organic and produce food. Producing toxic from input to product commodities
I agree with your assessment. Corporate agribusiness is in no way farming.
Thank you. I appreciate you taking that as I meant it. Nothing personal just dating a slice of reality.
Like anything concerning the environment, we no longer have the luxury of saying “we don’t have that technology yet.”
We do. Sadly, the masses are tired, uneducated, and proudly ignorant. Our industrial food complex does a great job of facilitating.
saddest thing is our colonialist ancestors largely slaughtered the inhabitants who understood how to tend the earth in ways that provided for them so well they had more than enough. glad that enough survived to pass on much of that knowledge.
The mostly pacifist societies that understood they were part of nature never had any luck over the colonialists, who asserted they should have “domain over” thinking the bastards are undefeated…..😉
Would we all be so lucky as to: “get a $1000 inconvenience fee?” Excellent writing Silent Spring part two
Most excellent reading, soooo truthful and so educational.
Mr. Chris Jones, or is it Professor?
I am so glad I read this. And thank you so much for writing this. I spent 34 years reading, editing, and writing scientific and engineering papers and yours is one of the best I have ever read. For me, this is the first time I have seen a definitive call-for-action against our agricultural dependence on fertilizers (I have not been looking for one). You make the case very starkly about our ongoing Global chemical and biological pollution catastrophe. This issue should be addressed Nationally, not just by Iowa.
But when it comes to the individuals who are pulling the triggers using their chemicals, they are just like the rest of us who say: “It’s not my problem. I am only doing what I am allowed to do and what I can do as a free and independent capitalist and businessperson. It’s just good business.” They refuse to see a bigger picture in almost a psychotic way just like the legislators in the Iowa and US Congresses.
Thank you again.
David
Thanks David!
Stop using the word “capitalism“ we practice, rape and pillage. Known in Econ, 101 classrooms around the world as imperialism.
Capitalism requires a free and unfettered market along with strictly enforced, thoughtfully, emplaced, consumer protection. We have neither.
is it really "good business" when the soil dies and simply can't produce the products any more? a truly good businessperson would nurture the soil so it produces more and better product with less effort, thus producing more profits. consumers are largely willing to pay more for higher quality. I, for instance, am more than willing to pay a premium for the high cream line A2A2 unprocessed certified raw milk from my Amish farmer who has been improving the soil his cows graze on all year as well keeping his milking equipment clean per certification laws in PA. I simply can't tolerate even "organic" bulk tank pasteurized milk any more, it's hard to digest and don't get me started on the "cheap" low quality non organic crap sold in the bigger stores.
I could not agree more. I have changed soil, chemistry, tilth, organic matter, Contant and topsoil depth in five years. To a statistically significant relevance. Imagine that model over 100 years, 500 years?
In 15 to 18 years, conventional corn, growing in the flat desert land of Arizona. Zona produces a rectangle that will not even grow weeds. They call it desert corn concrete. The same thing is happening in Iowa, it’s just going to take a couple century longer. Which, we don’t have.
Besides, if you’re not concerned about quality of product, you should probably be a stripper or something …🤪
You are exactly right to worry about the Rock River in northwestern Iowa! It's part of the Big Sioux Watershed that extends through three states: IA,MN, and SD. So the data collection at monitoring stations and the modeling based on that information gets very complicated. But it's very clear that the big 2024 event delivered a huge slug of water and contaminants. SD Public Broadcasting had an interview with the State Geologist of SD who suggested that the event may have been a 500 year or even 1000 year flood event. We are currently seeing how ag practices designed for one climate regime are totally failing in the precipitation patterns in the new reality. Thanks for running the numbers where the best data are available, but adding the caveat for northwest Iowa.
Agrabusiness and it’s toxic from input. The product commodities are failing in every sense of the word.
Thanks again, Chris. You back up your fervor with facts!
I suspect that until enough of us consumers start choosing to hold their government officials accountable and also start meeting their nutritional needs by eating locally and sustainably, "the system" will have no incentive to change.
Chris once again excellent and hair-raising substack. Why oh why don't the Gulf states and all those affected downstream sue Iowa or the chemical companies or corporate farming operations?
There are trade-offs in any social policy changes. ChatGPT4o says average American family spends 10-15% of annual income on food. Were the optimal Chris Jones ag-world to come into being tomorrow to what level would this rise? Your estimate?
Good question and I don’t have an objective answer but bear in mind a couple of things
Leaving the pollution for the public to deal with is a subsidy to the industry
And meat esp beef is not that cheap anymore largely because food giants that control the marketplace. They also fight against regulation of the pollution
Because the proletariat is under compensated.
As a producer of real, nutrient, dense, pesticide, free, certified organic food, I don’t give a fuck if the poor people starve. Are used to want to feed the world. Now I just want to die. Producing real food with a real soil building practices is a high art. it should be compensated far more than it is.
Switching paradigms of huge subsidy programs like snap and WIC to farm to family model based on a farm to school highly successful model that should be in place for breakfast and lunch at every public school in America would put trillions of dollars into small landholder pockets and high-quality food into over 100 million Americans. How expensive is it to cut the corporate profits from a $2 trillion expense?
K State and ISU research indicates cover crops and no till practices may actually increase total phosphorus loss from farm fields, indicating nutrient management is needed. Duh! Iowa Learning Farms June 19, 2024 Webinar indicated cereal rye cover crops takes up a lot of excess nitrogen but they found it doesn't give it back so readily when needed by the crop. It was suggested that additional nitrogen be applied during the season to compensate for the cover crop not cooperating with the Iowa Nutrient Reduction Strategy. Round and round this little engine goes, fueled by my tax dollars. References below.
https://vimeo.com/962559252
https://www.ksre.k-state.edu/news/stories/2021/08/agronomy-cover-crops-reducing-phosphorus-runoff.html#:~:text=But%20in%20something%20of%20a,loss%20are%20not%20a%20concern.
https://research.iastate.edu/2022/03/21/iowa-state-scientists-solving-the-complex-puzzle-of-dissolved-phosphorus-loss-from-farmland/
The entire NPK evolution is bullshit. Soil chemistry is not about those three numbers. To actually improve soil, you must have a soil audit.
None of the numbers other than Tracy Merrill ppm mean a damn thing individually. What is important are the ratios. Particular to calcium and magnesium. Obviously, nitrogen, demanding crops need extra. Compost and bird shit, bat shit, and other animal shit and planting after lagumes is the answer.
Phosphorous barely move through the soil. Cover crops are essential to any living soil management practice and one or two species in mid August application. Sure, as fuck isn’t a legitimate cover crop.
Very interesting read, but once again your math is misleading and actually a half-truth, needs some help as I' shown before. In regard to Anhydrous Ammonia (NH3) 1000 gal nurse tanks. You said each tank holds 1000 gallon, 5000 #'s of nitrogen. BUT that's NOT TRUE, a nurse tank is NEVER filled over 85% to allow for expansion. a 1000 gal nurse tank holds 850 gallon of NH3 (5#/gal = 4'250#) which is 82% act N which = 3,885# actual N.,/ tank. You are 1185#/tank too high and wrong. Now take the on out to rest of your figures, wow! This just confirm my thoughts to question about what you claim so often.
I do like seeing your graphs and river amts.
I don't have time to always check your so called facts but your misleading information which definitely misseducates your following. The false info helps create hatred sometimes.
I know there is a problem with lost nitrate and it is a big concern and needs to be worked on. Knee jerk reactions for a problem are seldom the way to proceed. What are other states in the corn belt doing for the problem? I'd like to see some facts about that!!
Yes I know the tanks are rarely full. But do you realize if I calculate with 80% full tanks that only *increases* the number of tanks in the example?
Heavens yes. I took it u were talking about actual N used and it wasn't the way it was figured by 1000 gal capacity/ nurse tank. Yes I've seen some little fuller than 85% but still its not a total of 344 million #s of actual N which is the nitrate. I'll look at it more after this week of volunteering at the county fair. And there is more bigger tanks but it's still the same in actual nitrogen/ton of NH3.
There are 1,500- and 2,000-gallon NH3 nurse tanks out there, too, right? And the bigger ones are becoming more common. Did you mention that? Plus, there are 5.14 pounds of NH3 in a gallon if you want to be precise.
A nurse tank is "NEVER" filled over 85%? LOL. Should we talk about the tanks out there with faulty gauges? Should we talk about how close to full they might be filled every time they're re-filled, when they're being emptied every couple of hours?
But all of this really doesn't matter, does it? Chris was working backwards using an analogy of NH3 nurse tanks. The nitrate stream sensor data told him the final number of N loss over two months -- 343.8 million pounds. It doesn't matter if that loss can fill (or 85% fill) 1,000-, 1,500-, or 2,000-gallon nurse tanks. It's 343.8 million pounds of N that got away. The analogy paints a picture. And it ain't pretty.
If you acknowledge there's a problem and that it's a big concern what are your solutions? I don't hear hatred in Chris's substack. I hear a strong call to action.
I said sometimes. Sorry but his writings say 'farmers' not 'some farmers'. That's like saying 'writer's' twisting words instead should say 'some' writers.
In other words, there is no good “conventional, agrabusiness commodities producer“
They are mutually exclusive.
how do u arrive at this statement
I’m not your research assistant. Say hello to Felicia. Ciao.
You are the one completely out of context here. Industry fluffer boi much?
Why out of context?
Out of 153,680 2020 census counted farmers in the state of Iowa 799 of them are organic. The only thing wrong with his statement is calling the other 152,000+ “Farmers” …. They’re fucking miners. Anytime you use more calories than you produce, you’re a miner! Strip mining with no concerns about the environment or anything in it. Fuck you and your disingenuous bullshit.
Wow! I personally don't feel it is a reality calling 152,000 'farmers' (producers) as #^@#%^$ 'miners. Yes I've seen a few, very few, especially in 1980's when so many going broke and no money for inputs. But they only lasted for a couple years. Thx for your intelligent input, everyone has opinion and thoughts.
Only if you use definitions of words……
I don’t offer opinions when it comes to political science or anything connected to the soil. That would be incredibly unprofessional. I am informing you of reality. If you choose, or choose not to learn something, that is on you. If you’re not at least open to the possibility, at least let me know.
I'm always open to learning things. I definitely try to share reality and info. U DO offer opinions on anything connected to the soil. U choose not to learn many things going on with soil. Political science is part of reason we got to where we are today in production agriculture. It's really important to understand history, especially if it something a person needs more knowledge of for certain subjects. It tends to be all related..
We know that not all the NH3 in a tank is useable and any normal person knows that only some of what goes on the ground makes its way to the streams and rivers. But if your sensors in the rivers are telling you daily, hourly of even continuous concentrations then no one needs to know how many tanks there are or how much was purchased in the state every year. It’s a control volume problem, easily solved.
As to hatred: I sense feelings about the problem and dealing with it. I sense sympathies for the farmers and all affected. I do not sense hatred though.
Science does not pick sides. But it can initiate some heated discussions.
And as everyone knows, particularly the people reading this post, the most effective way of reducing either meat consumption or fertilizer use is to raise the price.
First, who decides to make a price of a product so high that the consumer of such quits buying? The govt. thru taxes? Or to the retailer? So then that means the controller decides, like soda pop out East. And where does this tax go?
Let me explain the beef system of supply and demand. A few years ago due to drought out west ranchers were forced to start liquidating herd numbers down,of coarse the number of weaned calves to go to finishing kept going down. At same time beef consumption was high. The packers started bidding up as it was profitable to buy the beef. As finished cattle prices went up producers that buy calves to grow to market wt started bidding up against each other to finish as there was a ROI, return on investment. Mama cows producing calves in the country continued to go down, lowest numbers in decades. The cycle has just kept going. End product keeps moving. Imported beef from Brazil stays steady. If retail beef gets too high the fed govt will allow more imports. Last time beef got too high to suit the powers that be imports from Australia were increased to curtail the higher prices. Australia has been experiencing drought problems as well now.
Also I didn't record the info I saw but the large ant of people using assistance are buying a lot of beef with their free money. Thank you tax payers. I volunteer at a monthly HACAP food dispersal to families in a part of my county and it's interesting to see the amt of govt bought beef, chicken, fish given away. I also volunteer at a food pantry and the same observation.
I don't have time right now to address artificial high pricing of crop nutrients.
The consumer. Good God man you just talk to hear yourself jabber don’t you?
Artificially hi? The entire fucking agrabusiness system is one gigantic subsidy! . Shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down.
Sorry I like to discuss sensibly so can't shut up and I am sitting down. What I meant was 'how to make the price of crop nutrient inputs so high a crop producer could not afford them'. If it's taxed beyond belief, where's the money go and WHO decides? Yes subsidies have become the norm for many crops in this country. Why? It is true that many yrs ago the powers that be that govern u and me were worried about food security. There were times we could only plant so much corn on a farm, according to the corn base alloted. If didn't participate u didn't qualify to be able to get a cheaper loan on the grain till sold. Just so many things. I remember when no carrot on stick from govt, but as the payments for this or that came along a producer eventually had to or the ones that took advantage of it would gobble u up.
No one that I know makes a price go high to reduce consumption. I just voiced a known cause and effect relationship. If the society really wants less smoking without all the rhetoric to convince people to do the right thing, all they need to do is raise prices. Probably a bad analogy because of the addiction issue. But no one needs to eat beef. It is desirable, but not a must have. Many other countries have so little beef that their prices are extremely high and the societies look upon it as a real treat, not a staple. If our society were to understand the destructive nature of our current agricultural practices, would they eat less, pay what they would have paid for more, and everyone be healthier and our farmers be better off?
Just a question, not a suggestion.
I'm guessing the countries u refer to don't have the vast amt of good grazing and feed stuffs area for the brood cow and offspring we have in this country. Eating single ingredient beef is not unhealthy. I'm don't believe the majority of our ag practices are of destructive nature. And, I sure would like for it to be explained to me how farmers would be better off, to your question, because I sure don't understand how..
My factual basis is very limited but apparently most Asian countries do not see beef, or raise it, like we do in America. Their prices are much higher and their people eat much less per capita per year. Some of the studies I have seen but can not refer to now indicated that green-house gasses from beef production were very high and the world would benefit from reducing all farm animal production. And people do not require the amount of proteins that they are consuming and would be healthier if they reduced their appetite for red meats specifically.
As I pointed out, Asian countries are not fortunate to have the vast areas in their countries to support beef production as in the U.S. Beef production is a part of most states in this country.
I agree we in this country eat more red meat than we may need. Yes I've been observing the green-house gasses issue. I have seen that daily jet flights are producing more green-house gases than beef production, for some they'll lower beef production when less jetting.
Raise the price? Look at price of beef now.
And there is the problem succinctly put. As long as people think that the price of the moment is high but they still buy beef, the price is not high enough. When people stop buying because of price and just price, you hit the right price. That is the law of cost/price and demand.
If you want people to stop using a specific product, make the price high enough to induce them to find alternatives. Not eating beef is an alternative.
Fertilizer goes the same way. Make it so expensive that no one can afford it and alternatives will be found or people will stop eating as much….
Simply price it at what it truly cost. All conventional agrabusiness commodity producers are completely based on fossil fuels from the diesel to the chemicals to the fertilizer. All killing the soil and complex lifeforms on earth. Including us. Can you put a price tag on healthy and clean food, water, and soil?
Also me and many others I know are slowing building the organic matter of our soil, according to periodic soil analysis. which increases water and nutrient holding capacity and productivity. We do this with crop residue, livestock manure, and dried human feces We also do this by keeping erosion to a minimum by not disturbing the soil with tillage. Very slow process.
Building soil is not slow. If you know how to do it. Erosion is best controlled with strip cropping. Nine times on average more efficient than seven-figure terraces.
You mean you are slowly building the organic matter of the soil?
I find you not credible.
I do know that organic farming takes more diesel per acre and more per unit of the much lower production than my no-tll corn/SB production. As growing up as a young child we were organic producers and didn't know it. Back then, before crop protection inputs of today, we rotated to oats, a yr of hay with part of the seeded ground fenced for hogs to be fed in the field, then a year or 2 of corn. The corn and hay fields were usually moldboard plowed in spring. Then tilled at least twice, then cultivated up to 4 times. The carbon was being cooked out of the bare soil and way more tons of soil washed away than today and the areas of top soil being gone got bigger
If u grab a handful of my soil u will see healthy soil. My soils are alive with fish worms and live soil bacteria.
Not if you’re using anhydrous ammonia, glide phosphate, die, Camba, and Notal with simple too late cover cropping systems. Just not. Nine out of 10 conventional, farmers soil, edition, tilth challenged, between compassion, and the molecular Efecto by 40 8 PM to crops is not a rotation. The NPK model is nothing more than a fertilizer sales gimmick. You are literally killing the soil. If you are growing, conventional, GMO, corn and soy beans. You are killing the soil. I don’t care if you live in Iowa and have the richest soil on earth. You’re just taking longer to kill it.
The tiny bit of diesel per acre that I use compared to my conventional counterparts is statistically insignificant. Your claim about yields is blatant ignorance. I consistently out yield all of my neighbors and every single crop but corn. Which, certainly doesn’t need to be part of the fuel equation and definitely not human food for the 10 to 15% less that I grow is all fed to animals.
Also, by circumstance, I make half of my diesel from organic soy. A definite negative in the balance sheet. But hey, is it all about money?
Any quality beef advertises? It’s finishing feed. Whether it’s corn, grass or what have you. You’re just making shit up at this point. Stop. It’s embarrassing.
And most of it is shit. If you had one of my Kansas City strip certified organic Angus steaks, you never go back. Stop shopping at the grocery store. Check out #LocalHarvest.org.
Well, I have had certified organic Angus Beef which of course could have had been fed organic corn. It was OK don't recall being any better. My beef and pork does not come from grocery store but from home fed done at local small processing plant.
Take your industry, mouthpiece gibberish, and shove far far far up your ass.
Conventional agrabusiness kills soil. It’s that simple. As well as complex lifeforms and humans. Shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down. Conventional agrabusiness equipment operators are the intellectually laziest demographic in America. And that’s a high fucking bar.
Wow! You are very interesting. Very hard to have sensible exchange with you. Thx though, I love exchanging with people that may be a little misinformed
I speak truth. With no tact or middle class sensibility. Please deal with it.
To be ignorant of anything in today’s society, with every written word in the world libraries at your fingertips is inexcusable.
Misinformed? You are so far out of your depth. You need to sit down and be quiet or go away.